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OPINION: Is there a glass ceiling for female lawyers?


By Cabral Douglas | Monday, 17 November 2008
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No glass John | 18/11/2008
The idea of a "glass ceiling" is, and always was, a myth. There were some firms which didn't welcome women lawyers, much less partners. That is an attitude of the past, almost never seen now. The only restriction on women advancing in the law is their own ability and commitment. It remains a fact that more women leave the law than men. That will reult in less and less women the higher one goes in the profession, even though the majority of graduates are women. The attrition rate is aggrievated by, but not solely the result of, child-rearing duties.
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G L Currie's comment G L Currie | 18/11/2008
Perhaps the real problem is that of the (predominantly male) partners of firms who are driven to depression and early deaths by the billable hours model.
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It's all about the $$$ Anna | 18/11/2008
Partnership in a law firm is not about seniority or quality of practitioner - if that were the case there would many, many women partners. It is 100% about money which is about whether you have your own clients and how much you bill. How much you bill comes down to billable hours - of course it's a system that inherently discriminates against women for that very reason - it's blatantly obvious. Private law firms are not about the "profession" - when it comes to a choice between the oaths they took upon admission to practice and $$$ - $$$ always wins.
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Anonymous's comment Anonymous | 18/11/2008
I am reluctantly reserving my opinion at this stage. I do, however, believe it necessary to point out that in my experience as a [male] Lawyer, I have come across very few female sole practitioners. What this point speaks to in relation to the alleged "glass ceiling" (and I am not diminishing the point by using the word "alleged") is a matter for your own interpretation.
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Not glass but concrete RL | 18/11/2008
There are some male dominated areas or firms where the ceiling is much stronger than glass and no matter how hard you try or how good you are, it's very difficult for women to get a fair go. This isn't universally the case (fortunately).

As most children have fathers, it's curious that it's perceived that women who are held back because of child rearing duties. This highlights the inequality of division of unpaid and under valued domestic labour.
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Glass Ceiling anon | 18/11/2008
There are many successful law firms founded over the last 20 years - how is it that few of them have been founded and maintained, at partner level, by women?
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Anonymous's comment Anonymous | 18/11/2008
I am a female partner (with children) and we employ more female solicitors than male in our partnership. However, in my view, advancement to partnership is more likely to be available to males in my partnership. In my observation the reasons are:
- there is no issue in relation to ability but to work at partner level involves a level of committment that men are more likely to make than women irrespective of if they have parenting responsibilities. It is fine to say that we need to make the committment level lower so as not to discriminate against women but it needs to be remembered that partners are business owners at the end of the day need to be able to do enough to ensure the viability of that busines;
- the people who make the purchasing decisions in relation to legal services are still generally men and they often tend to form relationships with and give their work to male solictors they feel comfortable with or like (particularly in some industries) so it is harder for female solicitors to build up a client base.
- maternity leave can often lead to loss of client base (both internally - which shouldn't be the case but is and externally) slowing the progression of partnership prospects.

Not sure if these observations are true of other firms but this is my experience.
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The glass ceiling is called having kids Anon | 18/11/2008
The glass ceiling is called having kids. Law firms are full of people not "impeded" by kids. The male senior solicitors/partners often have super-wives who leave them with nothing to worry about on the home front. The young male/female solicitors have no kids. The "norm" then becomes to devote most of your existence to work. The female solicitors with kids who can't do this are labelled "not aggressive enough", "not committed enough", "doesn't have enough of a business case". Its nothing to do with ability - its time committed to the office. Unless we get rid of billable hours it won't change.
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anon's comment anon | 18/11/2008
I'm a female sole practitioner. It was a big leap at the time -mentally and otherwise but I love it and its rewarding every day. I find it hard to get any publicity in the legal columns and yet two guys starting out doing nothing special will always get some editorial space. It's a reality
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the client's fault cynic? | 19/11/2008
perhaps the clients who want to instruct lawyers who are available to work for them 24/7 are the same clients who adjudged junk paper as AAA rated. The profession generally needs to sell to clients the message that lawyers who have no life but their work will be narrow people whose advice will if not flawed legally will not be of much long term value in the sort of world most of us want to live in.
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choices anon | 19/11/2008
its about making choices. Clients can choose the lawyer with ability who may not be available 24/7 or the lawyer with the same ability who is totally committed to their needs. Lawyers can choose to spend quality time at home or not. Why should the lawyers who do get the same rewards as the lawyers who put in more hours? Having children is a choice, as is working part time as opposed to full etc.
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Ex-partner's comment Ex-partner | 19/11/2008
I left partnerhsip in a major firm because I honestly couldn't see how I could balance the time I wanted to give to my family, with the commitment I knew was needed to continue as a high-performing partner.

It was my choice. I do not blame the firm - my partners and colleagues have always been incredibly supportive and urged me to consider all options. I agree with the previous comment about the realities of a 24/7 service promise to clients who are willing to pay extraordinary amounts for our time. Some deals require long days/nights for weeks on end, and unless we re-shape the way that business is done globally, that is not compatible with leaving work at 5.30 to pick up the kids, or spending a few days a week at home without constantly working the Blackberry.

What would have made a difference to me? More support at home! Not outsourced nanny/cleaner/gardener services, but a husband whose working life and mindset could offer a more equitable sharing of domestic responsibilities.

Most of my male partners have wives/partners who either do not work, or work limited part-time hours. Ironically, in many cases, these women are actually lawyers themselves - who have been lost to the profession because it is so hard for a family function with two parents in high strees/long hours jobs.

So, the solution? More men being motivated to seek out, and successfully negotiate, flexible working arrangements that allow them to be more involved at home. That is how you start to change the norm in the business world AND create the opportunity for their partners to take on greater working commitments.
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Its not just about the $ - we recruit & select those that think and feel like "u... Mary | 21/11/2008
I am partner in a law firm but can tell you that many women blitz it in billables but will not be "nurtured" along the partnership path by the mostly male partnership in the way young male will be nutured - if a brillant female, billng hugely comes along she will be considered... if a young male with the same capability comes along he will be treated as a star. This inequity will change when female partner numbers reach a critical mass... but this will take time, a long time.
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Boys club F | 02/12/2008
Tatts, the old school boy network and rugby. Women aren't allowed into these 'hallowed' halls that will keep the profession male-centric regardless of the number of female law graduates.
Fact is 3 out 5 women are gone from the profession in 5 years. As a female lawyer, the only way to break through is to have no kids and no life. Has anyone else noticed how many single, bitter and twisted female lawyers there are out there in their 40's and 50's? I have, they regret having kids! But that's what it takes.
Further, who wants to be a partner? Give me quality of life anyday. Law firms are going to have to change. Younger generations don't want the hours. It no longer is a badge of honour!! Grow up old lawyers!
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So now we're the clients in-house | 02/12/2008
We can all work just as hard and efficiently as any bloke, kids or no kids. The kids train you to need less sleep. The glass ceiling there has everything to do with male attitude. White, male, private school tie, middle aged "my wife's at home spending my income'attitude.

Having given up on private practice I'm now General Counsel with a serious budget and I make absolutely sure that I give the women working in the firms I use the best opportunities I can. I am in a position to mentor and encourage. Reasonable timeframes and working well with flexible arrangements is something I can make my team achieve, and want to achieve. There are still too few women partners in our area, but I hope I can help to change that - because I am a great big potential client with a budget. Oddly I don't use my old firm much. Attitude towards women employees can be the biggest 'unmarketing' spend a firm ever makes.
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Anon's comment Anon | 04/12/2008
In-house, can you see the irony of your comment? I am sick to death of these arguments, and female lawyers with a chip on their shoulder, really, some males are better than you give us credit for. The key to success in a law firm is not a secret. Bill big, find clients, retain new clients, keep existing clients, strong/efficient billing practices, marketable personality (technical ability and talent in law are bonuses). If you are male or female, have no "legal talent", but bring in $600k plus per financial year, and show some loyalty to the firm, I'll make you a partner. (Of course, I am simplifying a tad)
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